FOREIGNERS GUILD PLANNING

[ironwood]

With the shift of governmental organization in Keeliai, and the designation of the Guilds, the Foreigners have been tasked with setting up an internal structure for their guild.

They have been informed that they have complete freedom to organize this Guild as they see fit, whether that means they have a group leadership (several people in charge), a hierarchy based leadership (one or two people in charge, then their subordinates, then the next level of subordinates, etc) or to entirely do away with a formal leadership setup at all and have all guild members carry the same authority level. Or any combination or alternative of those options!

The Council's decree has assured the Foreigners complete autonomy in governing themselves within the framework of their Guild, with these core stipulations:

1. All newly incoming Foreigners will automatically be allocated into the Foreigners Guild until (or if) they choose to make an informed decision to change to a different guild. The Foreigners Guild is therefore responsible for providing their guild's services and provisions at an equal availability whether they're an established member or a new arrival.

TL;DR - New arrivals are the FG's responsibility by default, and the FG can't force them out by treating them more crappily just because they're new.

2. The Foreigners Guild must participate in any city-wide referendums when called to take place at the Courtyard of Public Opinion. It is the discretion of the guild as to who and how many representatives they choose to send to these meetings, but it is to be understood that any representative(s) chosen to speak on behalf of the guild, that their input will be taken as the guild's official stance and will be held to those decisions or actions.

TL;DR - The FG needs to designate some spokespeople, and is expected to stand by whatever those spokespeople say in Courtyard meetings.

3. The Foreigners Guild will respect the authority of other guilds where it relates to the treatment of Foreigners who are those guilds' members. This could be either through benefits or disciplines. This also applies when laws are broken which fall under the purview of other guilds' areas of jurisdiction, including their own.

TL;DR - The FG doesn't get a say in the (good or bad) repercussions of things that happen to Foreigners who have chosen to join other Guilds, or when Foreigners break laws. However, the FG has jurisdiction over crimes perpetrated against Foreigners.

The first Courtyard meeting will take place in May, in order to establish the list of High Crimes (things like murder, etc) which require sentencing by agreement of all the Guilds; the other guilds will expect the Foreigners Guild's leadership and representative structure to be in place by that time, which can then be made official.

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Player Discussion

This post is for the OOC plotting of the Foreigners Guild getting set up. This is an entirely player-controlled process -- the mods are NOT involved in the end result of how this plays out. So it's important that everyone has a chance to participate in the process, as the decisions of the Guild's setup will be used to develop plots and events in the future!

Here are some some things for your consideration, although this is not an exhaustive list, simply suggestions:

- Is there going to be a defined leadership within the Foreigners Guild, and if so, who are they?
- What are their levels of authority, within the Guild's structure and in relation to the rest of the city and other guilds?
- Are these the same individuals for the spokespeople for Courtyard participation?
- How will the Guild handle treatment of Foreigners that are part of their guild?
- How will the Guild handle the treatment of those who perpetrate crimes against Foreigners?

And other input that may arise through this discussion post!

NOTE: This post is for the OOC/players side of this process! You don't need to justify your character's thoughts for your suggestions, as an IC log will be made once this discussion has been established, where characters themselves can also go through their version. (As we well know, player and character opinions don't always line up!)

Please direct any clarification inquiries to the Questions comment below.

Comments

[schrodingersghost]

So as of now, Danny's planning on sticking around in the Foreigners Guild. He's probably not going to be too interested in taking a leadership role himself (That's what adults are for, okay?) but he can probably be easily talked into helping out with different things.

[wintershepherd]

Is there a type of role he would be interested in, within the guild?

[schrodingersghost]

He'll probably want to avoid any of the spokesperson and leadership roles, unless someone convinces him that theres no one else who could do it. Because save the world, yes, but public speaking is still scary.

I'm thinking he'd be more inclined to help out with background stuff. Preferably things that will help people out.

[isochrone]

There's lots of less visible ways he can help out. The Welcome Center can take volunteers, or someone could float the idea of a new arrival buddy system? Like "hey you're new, wanna bunk with an already-established Foreigner for a few weeks to help acclimatize you?"

[schrodingersghost]

He could easily get interested in helping out with either of those.

[isochrone]

/thumbs up

Maybe he can bring these suggestions up ICly?

[schrodingersghost]

If it comes up in discussion he could, yeah.

And I'd be willing to put him on the list of reserve leaders only in the case no one else steps up, in case there aren't enough people volunteering.

[redlightgreenlight]

I think that there needs to be a few leaders with advisers. More than one head because foreigners tend to vanish and have those same leaders be the designated spokespeople.

[lasergrenades]

/player hat on. Agreed. I think it's important to have multiples in case the position suddenly becomes vacant. Maybe 3 Foreigners?

[redlightgreenlight]

An odd number would be best I think, avoid stalemates.

[isochrone]

also player hat'd: I'd think 3 or 5, if we go the actual leader route as opposed to straight up union democracy, 5 seems like it'd give more players opportunity, but the flipside is will there be enough people who actually volunteer for the positions ICly. Realistically there's going to be some term carryovers when there aren't enough volunteers.

[backwordscompatible]

For reasons which may or may not be obvious, Zatanna will be aligning herself to the Foreigners Guild. She's already been helping newcomers for years, and hopefully the Welcome Center has a positive enough reputation that it could be something of an asset.

She's not so much of a leader-type, but she knows she knows a lot and has more experience than just about any other Foreigner in the city, as well as the memories of a bunch of past events and "revelations" made over the in-game years, so she's willing to step up wherever it's decided she's needed.

[isochrone]

Jack's in mostly the same boat, he wants to stick with the WC which will mean the FG, but he's not actually interested in a leadership role as such. BUT like Zee, he's been around a long time (even if he did miss the last year+) so his biggest value is in being a touchstone to information on the earlier generations of Foreigners.

[justno]

I'd like to see a few people of diverse personalities, ideally who have some level of existing responsibility in charge. (ie Valdis as KPD, Zatanna as Welcome Center, someone who hates nice things, John Watson as the voice of reason; idk everyone very well). 3-5 people, I think. And then either one or all of that group would be able to speak up in official matters at the meetings.

I'd also be okay with adviser types, although I think each council member would naturally find their own and it wouldn't need to be assigned. And then everyone below them would have an equal say and be able to vote on issues or at least speak their minds to the council.

My only real concern would be how to not exclude new players/characters from having a voice while still having some level of consistency? To that end, maybe one slot on the council is a rotating slot of every 3ish months, a more recent arrival, to help get them involved (or someone who's willing to help in a specific time of need, but doesn't want to be in it long-term)?

My characters specifically wouldn't want leadership roles. Costigan could maybe act in an advising role (in secret), but idk for sure. Penny might join another guild so don't count on him at all.

[redlightgreenlight]

I agree. My biggest concern is how to let newer players have a voice too.

[wintershepherd]

I like the idea of set "terms" for the reps, so that every so often the spots get emptied to allow new characters to take the roles. 3 months? Six months? I wouldn't go longer than six, I think.

[redlightgreenlight]

Ooh!! Like term limits? Or more like we set up an 'election season' every few months to move people in and out?

[isochrone]

Yeah, I'm thinking a changeover about 2-3 times a year. We don't want to do it too often that people get burnt out on it, especially since the game itself is pretty slow, but we don't want the stretches to be too long where people can't get excited about them coming up.

[purered]

Term limits would be awesome and I am so down with this idea

[commandandcontrol]

Sonja IS interested in a leadership role in the foreigners guild. Despite her young age she's a head of state for a major world power back home and has fought in 3 world wars.

If it turns out that there's a lot of people vying for it, she might look into the service worker's guild instead (Rosyn reached out to her and there's some good potential there if she got taken under her wing), but it doesn't look like too many people are going for it so far.

[wintershepherd]

What are your thoughts on getting the roles picked icly? Majority vote, or whoever steps up first, or etcetc?

[commandandcontrol]

I was hoping I'd be getting better responses in my network post xD

As it stands, Sonja might be the only volunteer leader for the FG by default.

[isochrone]

Hopefully replies will pick up. But who knows, she might be!

[simulsimul]

I like the idea of a council, with a specific position(s) which rotates out. It lends the benefit of both some longevity and giving newer Foreigners a voice. My main question there is 'how new is new'? What kind of rubric would we ICly/OOCly use to determine who is still a 'new Foreigner'?

Five is a good number for a council, I think. The main concern is OOC coordination, but I think as long as quorums are made OOCly only one character needs to ICly broadcast the decisions, which reduces the need for multi-character threading. It also spreads around the responsibilities a bit more, OOCly speaking.

Character-wise, Kratos won't want a council position, but he won't refuse one if people think he'd be a good person to get on board. He is willing to give advice on processes and structure, however, being an old-butt with extensive military and political experience.

[wintershepherd]

Personally I'd think 3 months is a good threshold for foreigners to be considered new, but I'm used to viewing the game through a long lens, pfft! That might seem really long to others? Or too short.

[no_light]

Popping in here, I think 3 months is a pretty good limit for "new." Completely new players will probably want to get their footing in the game before they get involved in politics.

[isochrone]

Especially if their characters aren't pre-disposed to politics, it might take a few IC months for their characters to come around to the idea that they can actually make a difference.

[simulsimul]

Yeah, I think that sounds about right. It's hard to balance IC vs OOC considerations for this sort of thing, but given game timing that seems fair, esp given that characters can leave at any time. There's no IC point in having a longer term when you can't be sure people will see it through the whole way, and so forth.

[flowrite]

I definitely agree with needing at least 3-5 people in charge, although I also like the idea of having everyone with equal votes and no one in charge, more like a union--maybe with a rotating Speaker position for calling votes but not having any real authority otherwise. I strongly dislike the idea of having fewer than that in charge, for a variety of reasons.

...that said, Fai is likely to join the Collegiate society rather than stay in the Foreigner's Guild. He's probably going to try to eventually create a faction for teaching magic.

[wintershepherd]

For the union, that could work as long as it's structured to avoid stalemates... are you thinking majority rules on everything?

[flowrite]

Probably yes, maybe with different majorities needed for different kinds of votes the way they do it in Congress. Simple majority for easy stuff, 2/3 majority for the tricky stuff. (Definitions/examples of what kinds of votes are needed would probably have to be laid out beforehand)

[isochrone]

Ooh, that's a good idea, if we go union route.

[ninjainviolet]

Late to this, but I'm all for the structure:

Minimum of three months in-game before Foreigners lose their "newness"
3-5 council members that can be replaced during the year by volunteers if a member leaves (drops)
Actual terms for council members so they don't get burned out, and so others can run for a position.

To Summarize

[commandandcontrol]

So far a lot of people OOC want 3-5 guild members but besides Sonja I haven't seen a single other character who is IC intersted in doing anything, and so far Sonja has received a lot of pushback for even trying to create an hierarchy and has been really discouraged from even trying.

Considering that the May Itinerary states that the Kedan are expecting the Foreigners Guild to have some form of leadership in time for the public meeting, its looking like we're on course for this to go horribly horribly wrong.

Re: To Summarize

[justno]

It sounds like we should really start with 3, due to limited numbers in FG and those interested in leadership.

I also think only one should be required to rotate (every 4-6 months), mostly because I don't see characters tripping over themselves to join. I'd love to see Zatanna and Sonja stay if they want to, because they're clearly the best for the job thus far (and everyone else has stayed in charge of their respective things for as long as they want to).

Re: To Summarize

[commandandcontrol]

I don't think 3 is realistic at all, and it doesn't look like there's going to be a lot of responsibility for a 'leader' in the foreigner's guild at all anyway.

There should be one, and that one can get rotated out as necessary.

Re: To Summarize

[justno]

My concern is that I think Zatanna and Sonja are both interested? So does it then come down to a vote or..? It seems easier to convince a third person to be on the "council" than to deprive either of the two peeps who have been putting in the most work toward it.

Re: To Summarize

[commandandcontrol]

I don't think Zatanna is interested at all, actually. Zatanna doesn't want there to be any leadership, and told Sonja as much.

Which is why she volunteered Zatanna to lead, for all the reasons she gave in the nomination.

I don't even know who the third person would be.