tushanshu_ooc | Mod HMD

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#hmd

Mod HMD | Multi-Event

As before, and for anyone who may have missed it, at the end of every mod-run event in Tu Shanshu, we ~~try to~~ toss up an open dialogue post so that the events can be discussed. This is mostly to see if everybody's as happy as possible with the direction the game is going, whether or not the events could be considered a hit or a miss, that sort of thing.

This particular HMD covers the multiple mod events that occurred between March and now, including: the decay, the rationing, and the Atam landfall events. This is where you all come in!

Did you like them? Did they run too fast? Too many posts? Too few? Was there enough variation for everyone? Did you guys have fun, or did you feel like you were overwhelmed with it all? Was there too much NPC direction or not enough?

OBVIOUSLY if you have more comments, questions or concerns than those listed above you can add those as well! This is pretty much just a general list.

Please remember, ANON IS ON for this and IP LOGGING IS OFF so if you have anything you'd like to say but maybe you're more comfortable putting it forth anon that is a-okay! You can also feel free to PM us at this journal, or to toss a private plurk at either of the mod accounts (those being

vonnerdyce or

reignsdown) if that suits your fancy. Any and all comments are welcome, and though participation in this meme isn't required it's definitely encouraged if you're up for it.

Thanks again, guys, and happy turtling!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

I'm enjoying the events, but I do have one suggestion- since the decay and rationing are ongoing events, maybe world information should be altered or links provided to new players so that they're informed about them?

I am, as we speak, compiling an update to the events summary page that discusses these very changes.

That said, we could definitely add a mention on one of the other pages! Do you have a particular page in mind? I'm currently eyeing the premise, which is where we also update the "arrival" changes when that happened.

I think updating the premise might be a good idea- particularly with 'stuff is being rationed and the kedan are hostile', since those in particular are likely to have a big impact.

Good point! With that in mind, I update the welcome page to include the rationing and state of affairs with the kedan. Thanks for the feedback!

Agreed. And I know I personally am going to need a rundown on what characters are allowed to ICly affect, because Bruce is a busybody who won't leave things alone, lol. I should probably just be coordinating with you guys directly on this, especially in regards to Nita's group working on water quality and all that. Any affected changes would have to be brought to the attention of the whole game, anyway.

So I guess what I'm saying is maybe a "currently in Keeliai" type of page, that states what the current ongoing events are? More or less what you'd need to take into consideration for your threads right now, in order to jump in.

Otherwise I've been very happy with everything!

We currently don't provide a set-in-stone list of what characters can impact at any point in time to avoid constraining characters or players to specific paths (or, more worryingly, ruts). Our goal in Tu Shanshu is to encourage players to come to us with plot ideas and/or questions about what their characters could or could not do. This is also because we might accidentally miss a detail or accidentally exclude certain characters or abilities in compiling such a list.

With Bruce, we definitely encourage you to come to us with what he'd like to get involved in and we'll give you a breakdown of what he could expect to encounter or find. Both Roy and myself have plurk pings turned on and we both have access to the mod email account if you'd prefer to use that method. :3

With regards to the current state of Keeliai, we have been maintaining a player-suggested summary of events (with links to OOC and IC posts) that outlines a both shortterm and longterm impacts of events. I think this is what you were looking for? Or are you looking at more for a weekly summary of what's happening in Keeliai? Unfortunately, we do not (at this time) have plans to start providing a weekly summary, as it would require substantial time resources in order to keep up with everything happening in the game and then putting it into a concise description. We also don't think it's fair to ask players to take up this task for the same reasons.

Oh, okay, yeah-- I actually really appreciate that about this game. The willingness to cooperate with players on the meta plot is one of my favorite things about it. I think I'm honestly just not used to it, so I feel strange pinging people about it, but that's my own failing. LOL. Once I get back into the swing of things, I'll be more proactive about it.

He's currently pondering setting up indoor hydroponic gardens somewhere in Metal sector, but he's more of a 'dreamer' than a 'doer' so he'll by necessity start roping other characters into this. He comes up with ideas, but isn't so great at implementing them (lol too much of an introvert). So I know he's going to end up making posts about his plans and asking for others to get involved and take charge, and I wanted to have mod discussion before I went that far. I'll get back to you when I have the time to form a more coherent plan and we can hash it out.

Re: weekly summaries, no no, definitely not. I know how much of a pain those are, believe me. XD I don't think it's necessary! I just didn't realize that the events summary page was up to date (maybe it wasn't before? idk). I would suggest linking to it on the arrival page, or point it out in the app accept HTML, or something like that. Sort of a "make sure you inform yourself about what's going on right now before posting". That would definitely be helpful, at least for me.

We'd love to hear those plans! Personally I think a garden is a great idea, and is an element of gameplay we'd definitely welcome. Something like that would also do its part to help repair kedan/foreigner relations, as well.

We usually update the event summary post at the end of major events (time allowing) or at the end of each month if we were unable to stay on top of it during the month itself, but it's still a new introduction to the game and we're ironing out the kinks as we go. If you have any suggestions about streamlining the process we'd be happy to hear it!

We took your suggestion and added a spiel in the accept notice, linking to the event summary page. We'll be using that form from here on out, hopefully it suffices!

Yeah, he's actually thought of that and specifically wants to make sure he involves the kedan in it. He doesn't want to be seen as hoarding food, and is humanitarian enough that he wouldn't discriminate between distributing the resulting food to either kedan or foreigner. So I will for sure get back to you on this. :3

I think my only other two cents here is that you might want to include 'ongoing' events. Not anything plot revealing, but just a heads up that it's going on right now, with perhaps a link to the OOC plotting post. imo that would take care of any falling through the cracks.

That sounds great to me! :D

RE: 'ongoing events' - I think that's a matter of simply checking the ooc comm? All of our event posts are tagged #event, and they usually provide all the information as to dates and goings-ons at the time as applicable.

For reference, when I sit down to do an OOC event post (since I (I being Roy)) usually handle those, I can expect an entire day to be dedicated to answering the questions that come up, etc. I usually spend between eight to twelve hours - not including the write-up of the original post - doing all the mod work that shapes a single event - not including IC posts or anything that comes up later. There's a significant investment of time in doing so, and I don't think that it's necessarily feasible to do that and maintain a real-time 'this is what's going on' post on the side, when all the applicable information is readily available in the OOC comm itself, and in the event summary post by the end of each month.

Oh no, I definitely don't mean adding all that onto the summary page. I fully understand what an immense and ridiculous amount of work it is to run an event-- there's a very good reason why I don't mod, lol. And I think repeating it would be unnecessary in the first place.

I literally mean just adding a note at the bottom that's, "Ongoing -- Landfall at Atam" with the link to the post itself. That way you don't have to repeat all the information. But you're right that they are tagged on the OOC comm, so perhaps even just a simple note like "remember to check the #event tag for what's going on right now" would suffice.

It's really not a big issue, I'm just throwing my two cents out there.

Ahh, I see what you're saying. I like the idea about just adding a reminder at the bottom to check the OOC comm, I think that's probably what we'll go with. That way, we can still do our overall event summary update on a monthly basis without having to worry about being 100 percent on the ball at all times.

Yeah, I like that idea, too. I'm all for giving you guys some leeway. xD Updating things is a pain and you already have to do a ton of it, so this way you don't have to worry if you don't find the time.

Consider it done! I am making Alex be my code-monkey today but yeah she added a note to the bottom, and also added at the top a 'this was last updated XXXX' so people have a rough idea of where they are timeline wise.

Excellent suggestions, thank you! If you can think of anything else chuck it our way and we'll be happy to figure things out.

Ohhhh that's another good idea, having a last updated time stamp. I WILL CHEER HER ON IN HER CODE MONKEYING.

I'll be sure to, I'm not shy. XD But I've really been very impressed with how smoothly everything has been run so far, so I really have nothing else to say at the moment!

Awh, thanks. We definitely appreciate the feedback, too. Frankly it's one of the components that allows us to keep things clipping along at a pretty even keel.

I think I'm mixing my metaphors there...

Yeah, it's very difficult to keep plugging away smoothly in a vacuum. I know that for sure. Don't worry, I'm here for all of your opinionated needs. :|b

I will not judge you for your mixed metaphors.

Excellent, excellent.

Is that because I'm almost into my Reid tags?? And speaking of which he will totally help with that garden.

LOL sometimes I do find my characters influencing how I talk, ngl. And Bruce would love help with the garden. What he especially wants is someone to be a front man so he doesn't have to talk to people (Tony? Pepper?) and who is willing to take charge of the project. He just wants to sit in a quiet corner and science, okay.

What about a monthly forecast? I know I'd be willing to put some time towards maintaining a page or post, as personally I'd find it helpful, even if it was in point form or something simple, just highlighting the current status of city life.

It might not be a bad idea, but it does seem like it would be sort of a rehash of our event calendar, which might cause it to end up being busywork. If you'd like to maintain something like that independently of the mod-team, you're more than welcome to, but the calendar is updated with a three month 'forecast' of sorts and should be considered the primary source for ongoing or current events.

I'm kind of high on allergy meds right now, forecast was actually the wrong word, I was looking for "recap".

/crawls back to bed

Like a State of the Game sort of thing?

Yeah, that!

I think our concern with that would be a potential overload of information, for both new and seasoned players. The 'state of the game' can be extrapolated between the event calendar and the event summary page, if we start adding more pages for people to read there's potential confusion and overlap.

That said, Alex and I would be perfectly fine with you guys maintaining such a page, with the caveat that it would not be something we necessary looked over for potential inaccuracies.

It's not really a criticism, but personally I found the landfall plot went very fast, being handled in only one week OOC time, especially with so many people wanting to thread out the finding of other's items. I know a lot of it is handled through backtagging, but that was my feeling.

Other than that, I'm really pleased with the pacing and scope of the mod events. :)

The previous landfall lasted for one month and we received feedback that it was too long, so we shortened the Atam landfall to one week in a search to find balance. We are always open to extending events if asked of us (and even mentioned it in the OCC post), but no one came forward during the event to make that request and so we decided to end it on time.

We'll definitely keep this in mind for the next landfall though! While backtagging is the backbone (lol) of Tu Shanshu, I understand wanting a bit more time to do things ICly.

Ah yeah, a month would have seemed forever. The OOC post was one of those things where I wouldn't have asked because I wasn't sure if my week just got away from me or if other people felt the same way. :X I probably should have spoken up.

We're always available to feedback and discussion. If you're not comfortable with stating it publicly, feel free to pop one of us a private plurk and we'll be happy to discuss or consider it.

Basically, it comes down to us not being mindreaders. We'd love to know when or if people want more time, but do need that heads up to make it a thing.

I think I suffer from . . . getting lost in everything. ^^;; I have to echo Bruce's player in that I wish there were some way to know what I can affect icly. I fully understand your reasoning for why you don't want to give a list, but . . . I wonder if it's possible to give more of a sense of structure for the city itself? Like . . . what buildings are there? Which ones are likely to be guarded and which are open for public access? What is one likely to find in them? (Like the libraries, for example?) That kind of thing.

I appreciate the free reins, but I feel almost a little . . . too free? I don't know what I can and can't put my fingers into or even what there is to put my fingers into, so I have trouble generating ideas to come to the mods with. If that makes sense?

I may try to help a little of this; I was thinking Amelia might try to get people to talk about what they know in a post -- gather it together for everyone to see.

More relevant to the plotline: I also kind of felt that the turtle sickness event was too close to the landfall event. I probably could have used about two weeks of each? (Seems like a good compromise down from one month and up from one week?)

The same problem as above with Atem too . . . you gave really great detail on the people and then hints on the situation in that place, but it was hard (at least for me) to see a way to capitalize on that and learn more.

Hopefully this hasn't all come across badly; I'm just eager to dig into everything, but I'm having trouble seeing how to approach it without some additional structure. ^^;

Hey there, thanks for the input! I'll address it point by point and hopefully won't miss anything that way.

One of the reasons for the freedom we give people is that we, as mods, can't think of everything. Putting ourselves into a box (you can absolutely affect X outcome versus you absolutely cannot affect Y) inhibits the creativity of our players and also the overall growth of the game. When people come to us with questions or requests, we've been more than happy to create something spur of the moment to accommodate them, which allows us to be flexible and helps move the plot along in an organic and player-facilitated manner. The structure of the City (ie: buildings that are guarded, etc) isn't important to the overall plot, and we are more than happy to allow people to invent things as they deem it necessary. The only area that isn't free for on the fly player manipulation is the Palace itself, but you are more than welcome to say there's a heavily guarded building in the Fire Sector that your character wants to investigate, for example. I can understand the concern that we're creating a very broad potential margin for error, but as long as you adhere to our 'Rule of Ten' (ie: you can be 'allied' or kill up to ten NPCs without mod approval or intervention) and aren't having your character find super powerful or otherwise world-breaking artefacts, we don't police specifics.

RE: the Turtle's sickness being too close to Landfall: The turtle's sickness is an overarching plot, and not anything that currently has a time sensitive expiry date (it is in fact still ongoing, if you check our calendar). The Landfall was directly related to the Turtle being ill, as the resource scarcity prompted a need to make contact with the mainland. In terms of the duration of the landfall itself, I absolutely agree. Our next landfall-based plot will probably be two weeks in order to give a middle ground.

In regards to having too much freedom in Atam itself, we made ourselves available to provide details when asked. In the future, if you find yourself at a loss for something to do, feel free to ping us with a general overlay of what Amelia might be up to and we can bounce some suggestions back and forth. The problem with trying to ensure that everyone has something specifically geared towards their character is that we have a growing game of over a hundred and thirty characters, and it's virtually impossible to tailor-make something for everyone.

If you're having trouble thinking of something specific, consider what Amelia would be personally invested in and try to go from there. She's a very proactive character, and could easily fall in with a cause or situation she feels strongly enough about. If you're uncertain about what causes or stimuli she might encounter, we're available to discuss the possibilities. But as expressed up-thread, we aren't mind-readers and cannot know that you are looking for something to do if you do not first come to us.

An example of this situation is that we have had, several times over the course of the game, added details we felt were unimportant to a plot or situation (such as the stockade in Atam) that people decided to run with and create plots around. It wasn't our intention to have a particular focus on it, but it caught people's imaginations and we were happy to foster it and allow for an organic procession of plot. Conversely, we've added details to plots that have also been largely overlooked, so there's no true way to gauge which details are going to draw people in, and that's why we offer such a wide range of events.

Again, thank you for your input. We may not be able to implement everything you've suggested, but we'll keep it all in mind as opportunities allow.

I think maybe we're not quite understanding each other? I know I personally tend to jumble lots of thoughts together and think it's clear, but it isn't always. ^^; So . . . let me try to get clearer/more specific!

No, I totally understand why you don't lay out every possibility, and I would agree that's not conducive to sanity. But I think it would be helpful to generate something like a more specific city map with landmarks -- perhaps something that players could contribute to? It might give things a sense of continuity and place.

I understand that the turtle sickness is an ongoing event now; I guess I didn't at the beginning. Is everything still exactly the way it was, though? Can we notice any changes due to cleanup efforts? I know that I had asked if Amelia could help with healing at all, but you indicated she would be shooed away by the kedan. Frustrated, she's been doing some testing in the Water Sector by trying to de-poison the water, though I've only had it having minimal effect. (I'd love to have her do more!) Are other people's efforts working? It might be nice to get a sense of all that in an update with an ongoing event. Maybe something weekly with just a blurb about what's happening on the island?

I personally might also love some random events now and again, like . . . kedan gang war in metal sector, or pipes burst in earth sector. Something, again, for people to rally around and plan rp around . . . or completely ignore, if that's their preference. I know that would at least help someone like me, who feels lost and isn't very good at starting up random conversation, to feel more grounded and have things to get fired up about.

. . . This is not to say that turtle sickness or Atem landing doesn't cause firing up at all, just . . . the events are so big and everyone goes off with their own plans that they never rally around a more focused common cause. And in the case of the stockade . . . for some reason, it got completely lost in the shuffle for me, and I never saw it. I guess I'd love to see a few more focused events here and there.

I'm honestly not trying to complain, and I hope that you don't see it that way! I don't expect anyone to read my mind, and expect someone to hand everything to me on a platter even less. But since you asked . . . I thought I would talk about some of the challenges I'm currently running into. Hopefully I've done better this time. ^^;; It's highly possible that maybe you've already done some of these things and I just haven't been around long enough to observe the patterns.

I appreciate you listening. <3

We can see where you're coming from regarding additional structure being helpful to some players. This has come up in the past and we've discussed it on the mod level a number of times. That said, we have always erred on the side of caution regarding the risk of information overload or burnout either on the writing-up or the reading-of. Currently, we only have plans to offer the overview map of Tu Vishan, with the subsequent descriptions already provided. This is, again, to promote the creativity of the membership and prevent players from being afraid to contribute mentions of buildings, small scale scenarios, etc that fleshes out a world with a variety of influences.

Providing too many additional details, such as a defined map, can create a scenario where there's a structure, but little room for growth and a lack of confidence in the membership to contribute to said growth. That can further generate fear of contradicting easily referenced data, leading to constant referencing of information pages rather than immersion and enjoyment of the RP experience. Your suggestion about a player-contributed map has merit in theory, but the execution of such a project, given that the Keeliai area is the size of Vancouver BC, raises a number of logistical issues, from how to coordinate 60+ members into providing their contributions and how to avoid, again, information burnout and fear of contradictions in said contributions. Given these logistical difficulties, it is not a project that we will be launching at this time.

We do acknowledge that this may not appeal to all players and we're sorry if it doesn't appeal to you. Tu Shanshu is meant to be more of a sandbox setting with directed plot for both creativity, but also for time commitments . Which leads to your suggestion about a weekly update as to the status of the turtle. This has come up in some other suggestions and, as noted, we are not against members providing such a thing (on the stipulation that it is not mod-reviewed for accuracy), but neither Roy nor myself have the time to monitor everything that's happening in game -- and then to summarise it for a weekly update.

When there's a large change in the nature of the turtle, we will definitely be posting about it (see: the current "spa days" event). With regards to the rest of the efforts, we've been reviewing them on a case-by-case basis and have given players some freedoms with regards to success or failure. As with the previous paragraph, we do not have plans to summarise all efforts within a weekly update due to time constraints -- additionally due to some handwaved involvement or ongoing threads that we may not be aware of and which would be inadvertently left out in such an update.

Touching on your suggestion about random events, we'd like to point out that you (or any player, for that matter) are more than welcome to submit a player-run event that covers it. Player-run events do not necessarily have to be instigated by a specific character; if you'd like to run something more generic than, say, Amelia amassing a crime-fighting army, then you can definitely outline and submit something to that effect. A Sector-specific gang war, random pipe issues, etc are all things that could fall under the scope of a player-run event. We rarely run such events on the mod level as Tu Shanshu's focus is the metaplot and we are constantly working towards the next goal. Smaller events with localised impacts are more slice-of-life and take away the focus that we need to keep on the metaplot for the sake of keeping it going. We are happy to encourage smaller, slice-of-life mini-plots to be taken on by players through the previously linked event page. All approved player events end up included on our calendar and we ensure to adapt the other planned events to ensure there is adequate time and the correct setting to facilitate the event.

Finally, you made a comment on the nature of focused events and we'd like to reassure you that we have offered a number of focused events in the past (the September gang wars, the shell damages) and will be offering them in the future. The landfall at Atam is one example of a more passive event in that we provided the setting and allowed members to plot on their own. In these cases, our suggestion is mainly to keep reviewing the OOC comments in the announcement posts for plotting details to see what comes up. This is how most of our players get involved with others and come up with craziness such as the stockade mini-revolution that occurred.

I think that covers off most of the concerns that you elaborated on. In short, we appreciate the suggestions and will keep them in mind. We hope you'll consider some of these counterpoints in the future and, please, have fun here! If you want Amelia to have more effect in and around the turtle, then feel free to float a different plan of attack, as it were, than her simply offering to help the kedan (on the grounds that they will reject it). We don't mind going over revised ideas when one angle may not work; very few things in life work out on the first try and that's a reality that we've been reflecting into situation on the turtle.

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Mod HMD | Multi-Event

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