a note regarding 4th walling;

[ironwood]

Hey guys!

Just a note that Tu Shanshu's policy on 4th walling is that it's essentially tantamount to godmoding, and is not permissible without the approval of both the character you are threading with and any other cast members it may affect. This is especially important in regards to secret identities. For ease of examples, this means that if you are 4th walling Jerrica from Jem and the Holograms, then you are by extension also 4th walling Kimber, Aja, Raya and Shana. Even if Jem/Jerrica's player is totally okay with it, please keep in mind that other people affected may not be.

Recognizing someone as fictional and/or knowing their secret identities both fall under this category. Even if your character isn't the sort to discuss the matter with others, it's still best to clear it with the affected parties.

If you have any questions about this or any other policy, feel free to direct it to the mods either in a comment here, or a PM.

Comments

[wintershepherd]

Copied over from Plurk:

I'm just checking how the idea of cast approval works in certain situations. I understand the reasoning behind it (particularly for characters with more than one identity) but it seems to remove individual player choice from the process?

For example: So say I'm all right with Stocking being 4th walled but then later we get a Panty and the player is like "enh, no thanks", does that negate my choice? Or does mine made before they joined negate theirs? Likewise if we later get 5x more PASWG castmates and all of them are good with 4th walling except for the one player, does their disagreement negate the rest of the cast's?

[ironwood]

Situations like those are taken on a case-by-case basis, in the hopes that something can be worked out that everyone can agree on. 4th walling in and of itself requires a certain amount of flexibility on behalf of all players, and we ask that people be reasonable in this regard. If one individual member of a cast doesn't want to be 4th walled, we would look at other options or possibilities at that time, as each situation would be unique to those characters and castmates.

There's no perfect single solution to this circumstance - disallowing 4th walling altogether causes problems when applicants would like to apply for 4th wall savvy characters (characters like Abed from Community, Dean Winchester from Supernatural, assorted geek/nerd characters to whom their geek or nerddom is a significant part of their identity, etc) and find they can't maintain a character independently of such a large part of their defining characteristics, and allowing it comes with its own set of potential misunderstandings. 'No 4th walling ever' is a hugely limiting move that we do not at this time feel comfortable applying to a game such as Tu Shanshu.

If, to use your example, we later get a Panty who is less okay with being 4th walled, we would do our best at that time to arrange a compromise that suits everyone and causes the least amount of friction between both immediate castmates and other members of the game.

[wintershepherd]

Does it work in reverse if the majority DON'T want to be 4th walled? So using the Jem example above, if Jem's player is fine with it but is the only one of the group who agrees to be, the others decline, are they (Jem) still allowed to be 4th walled?

(Not trying to be split hairs, this is the first time I've played in a game that uses a policy like cast permission. I usually play LCW so it's never really been something I had to worry about before.)

[ironwood]

Again, it's something that would have to be discussed at that time. The blanket policy we've had in place since the game's inception was 'ask anyone who would be affected and go from there'. In the DC cast, for example, knowing Aquaman's real identity might affect the Aquafamily, but would have a very negligible impact on the Bats. We aren't asking for people to ask the entire cast individually, just the other characters on which it would have an impact, which is the method that's had the greatest success at maintaining everyone's individual comfort levels thus far.

[wintershepherd]

Ohhh... that makes more sense.

Errr, but it does contradict what's in the game rules where it says "DO NOT FOURTH WALL WITHOUT PERMISSION FROM THE FULL CAST OF THAT CANON."

Maybe it could be changed to "before being cleared by all directly impacted canon CR" or something along those lines?

[ironwood]

We will take that under consideration. That note is there for the consideration of smaller canons, etc, with the understanding and experience that the larger canons tend to be quick to help bring players up to speed on the common application of the fourth-wall policy for that canon group. In short, because the players are amazing, they share their experience with newer players that ask -- saving said players from having to ask large canon groups.

[skybluejeep]

So. Hi. Just gonna sit here and clarify a few things because well...Stiles.

The way I've been doing it on my permissions post is that Stiles does not recognize anybody's secret identities EVER unless given permission. And if a character from any canon does not want to be recognized in any capacity, he/she won't be. If that occurs, it's easy to say that nobody can know EVERY character ever, obviously.

FOR EXAMPLE the way I worked things out with Roy is that Batman is the comic version, and only known as BATMAN, never Bruce Wayne. Stiles will never tell him he's "fictional" but will still fanboy over him, and will never know ANY secret identities of any of the Batfam. It's Teen Wolf canon that Stiles/Scott/Erica make multiple references to Batman and Robin and Catwoman, so there needs to be some leeway my way, as well.

Is this a fair interpretation of the rule?

[ironwood]

This is a fair interpretation of the rule, yes. Secret identities are of critical importance in Tu Shanshu and protecting them is appreciated. That said, Catwoman's player should be quickly checked with before directly applying that interpretation in a thread with them, just in case said player is not okay with it.

One thing to remember is that, for the sake of not fourth-walling a character that does not want to be fourth-walled, sometimes an "alternate" rendition can be considered. For example: Alex plays Ororo Munroe/Storm from 1610. Dealing with the perception of Storm in other Marvel universes is already hefty enough for her characterisation considerations, therefore her permissions are that characters can know an "alternate" version named Weatherwitch of the Y-Dudes or the like. This allows pop-culture-savvy characters to retain a variation of their nature without violating Alex's comfort zone for the playing Ororo.

[the_other_eight]

What do you think about adding a 'permissions' page (especially since we have so many characters that are high powered) where everyone answers a set list of 'permissions', forth walling being one. That way even if the person is shy or very new and unsure they could go to that page and see what people have up before? Blrgh, I ramble

I know a lot of people have this up on their individual journals, but I think a lot of that sort of thing gets neglected by others and it might be good to have it at a central location.

[khan_artist]

The Permissions Post List is a collection of everyone's personal permission links, but it doesn't provide a predetermined set of permissions in regards to powers.

I like the idea, but it would be hard to make a set since so many characters have differing powers and abilities that would make a master set list pretty long.

But that's my two cents. Overall, I'd like to see something like that.

[the_other_eight]

I think we'd have to keep it to a general ability thing. Like body control would cover stuff like blood bending and anything that would control your body and mind control would cover reading someone's thoughts as well. And if, like me, you're cool with cerain things bot not others in that category you could put ask me directly or whatever and add your contact and they could contact you.

[ironwood]

We do have a central page for people to submit their permissions posts, available here. This is linked in the accept notification template that we use.

At the moment, we are not considering a mod-maintained list on the grounds of additional maintenance work on both the player and mod levels. Fourth wall permissions really only apply when there are canon savvy characters in the game and, by virtue of their general rarity, the case-by-case approach feels more feasible.

[the_other_eight]

It's been so long since I've apped that I forgot that existed. I'll have to poke it now and get reacquainted.

That makes sense. You guys have so much on your plates as it is and do a great job with all of it. Like I said, it was just a suggestion if you guys were looking at going in a hard copy-type direction.

[ironwood]

We'll be considering adding the link to the main menus in the near future to further advertise its presence.

Also, thank you for sharing your thoughts on the matter. It forever means a lot to us that the members feel comfortable putting their suggestions forward. :3