tushanshu_ooc | Discussion | Activity Requirements & Hiatus Exemption

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Discussion | Activity Requirements & Hiatus Exemption

So, Tu Shanshu has been open for three and a half months now, and you know what that means? It means we're starting to go through and refine some of our policies and rules, just to make sure that everybody's still on the same page and that everything is still working for our playerbase!

The first thing coming under scrutiny is our ACTIVITY REQUIREMENT. As it currently stands, Tushan requires two pieces of activity – a post and ten comments in someone else's post. This is to ensure that there are both things to reply to and people replying to them!

But we've come far enough now and the pace of the game has settled somewhat. It's time to re-evaluate the current AC requirements and we're opening the floor to discussion.

There are several options as to how we could do AC in the future. Here's a few:

We start an either/or system. One post or twenty comments spread across a maximum of four threads in the AC period.
We continue with the current system of one post and ten comments spread across a maximum of two threads in the AC period.
We increase or decrease the number of posts, comments, or threads required to make AC.

Here's where you, the players, come in! What are your throughts on AC? Do you have any suggestions as to how we could refine it?

As a side note, any changes made to AC will impact the AC check for November 2012.

The second thing we're looking at is the HIATUS EXEMPTION, which currently stands at a character being exempt from AC for a month if they were on hiatus for three weeks within that month. Currently, we're looking at dropping that to a two week period, but would love any thoughts you might have on the topic!

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I feel like One Post + 10 Comments system is pretty fair as it is, but I also know from experience that stuff can happen that, while not keeping a person from tagging completely, can keep someone from reaching that mark.

That said, out of those three options, I do like the first one.

We've definitely had some feedback to that regard, which is one of the reasons the discussion's been opened. :3

Would you agree to a twenty comment system over a max of four threads? Or would you prefer to see a higher/lower comment count if that were to be the only form of activity required?

I think either of those options would work well. If people could choose between those two options for AC, it might give people the widest range of opportunity?

Like, they can do either a post with a minimum comment count, or the twenty comments over the max of four threads?

That's pretty much the either/or system in a nutshell. My curiosity is more whether you think 20 comments for a thread requirement is too many or to few? :|a

Whoops! Hm... No, I don't feel it is? I know, personally, I failed to meet it this past month but I thin that was just because I was dragging through threads from back in September.

20 seems on the upper limit of fair. If it had to be changed, I'd say lower it to 15 at most.

Welp I'm new, but I saw concern about someone's threads being dropped when they tried to tag out. Maybe something to have as a fallback in case this happens? I haven't experienced it myself (because lol I'm new), but I think it's a valid concern. Whether it's something in the activity check itself or something like an event, I think it could be helpful for people who might feel that their threads aren't being completed/are on different time zones/something like that?

There's definitely merit to the idea, but I'm not sure I'm thinking of the same thing you are. What form of fallback would you suggest?

I was considering either something in the activity check itself like if an individual's threads don't add up to 10 comments (and something like they all end with that individual's tags), to be able to offer more threads to the max number. Or something along the lines of allowing a second post to count, but they can't do that the next month, to prevent people from not tagging out ever.

Or, something like a "forced CR" event? Obviously, I don't have any experience with events here in tushanshu right now, so this might already be happening, but something that might encourage/force less social characters to interact with others (obviously with the mun's permission), so character types that might not usually match up CR-wise but have muns that work on the same time zone have a chance to get some productive threading done. Then again, this could also get a little boring/predictable, so take this with a grain of salt.

Edited (I sure am grammaring right today.) 2012-11-13 18:11 (UTC)

Oh! So, kind of a one-off exemption. Rather than just posts, would you consider it fair to have it for threads as well? As in, if they could list all their threads that month to show that they were the last tagback and nothing amounted to, say, ten comments for their character, they might get an exemption for that month?

Alternately, we could just increase the number of threads that could be used to avoid a potentially complicated exemption. What are your thoughts on that?

re: a 'force CR' event, there have been a few RNG'd team-ups (see: the gang war events; players signed up and the mods created the IC play teams) and there will likely be more in the future. Do you mean like that?

Yeah, that was what I was thinking! And yeah, to make things less complicated, increasing the maximum number of threads to possibly amount to 10 could make it more fair for people who might be trying and trying and trying to get 10 comments in a thread but who hit issues like thread drops. I feel it'll encourage people to not "give up" if they hit dead ends like that, especially for new players who might not know anyone coming into the game.

Yes! That sounds great! I'm glad you guys already have something like that in place. OOC sign-ups and IC teams for various things, I think, are a great idea and help CR for less social characters a whole lot. c:

These suggestions make good sense and we'll keep them in mind when it comes down to the final decision based on the input of this post. :3 Thanks!

Sure thing! Thanks for listening to a total newbie!

I know I'm new here, but I've been considering this game for nearly two months now. My main hesitation was with the AC requirements, having been in a game before that required posting generally resulted in people just posting to, well, post. And a lot of repetition. Not saying that this is a problem here, but I know I would personally feel more comfortable posting when the inspiration strikes me.

That said, I feel like offering players a choice with the either/or system to be pretty fair. I see it commonly used in many RPs, even smaller games, and it seems to work just fine. I also feel that it offers more variety for certain play styles- if someone prefers to tag around a lot, great, and anyone worried about dropped threads can maintain the current system.

The inundation of posts is definitely a consideration, especially as sometimes that means less tags happen in each post as people try to juggle tags from a lot of different posts.

Would you agree to a twenty comment requirement in an either/or system? Or would you prefer a different number?

I think twenty comments is perfect. And, yeah, my concern was also with the game pacing when you have so many characters needing to post. I think it might even help with the thread drops if people have less to juggle.

A valid point. :|a Thanks for the insights!

Hi, long time listener, first time caller. That is to say, I was just accepted recently so I suppose take this with a pinch of salt.

I'm thinking the either/or system seems more flexible and fair. My big trepidation about joining this game is oh god what if I don't have a post idea every month. CR and setting may wind up driving me to play in such a way that this isn't a problem, but I like the assurance of having some wiggle room on that front.

True. Inspiration is a big thing and sometimes making a post every, single month can be a bit overwhelming and slow down replies, lagging the thread counts in turn.

Do you agree with a twenty comment requirement for the threads in an either/or system?

20 is more than fair.

I kinda want to see that with some tweaking, tbh. Like, allowing people to have the current system of one post / ten comments, OR using the new system. Give some people some flexibility, you know?

(e.g.: One post, 10 comments, or just 20 comments between four threads, or two posts)

Also even though I'm kind of terrified the "you can't use the same people twice in a row" might become a problem, so far I've lucked out and never had to worry about it. So. I dunno :X

We've definitely looked at the "twice in a row" requirement and are tweaking it a bit with the revised AC.

Thanks for the thoughts on the comment count, it's an interesting angle. It may be a little complex, but we'll look at it too!

I think it might be a good idea to transition to an either/or system. Twenty comments sounds fair, especially over a few threads. I know a lot of people tend to be busy and everyone backtags a lot, so adding on more might add pressure to be active that's not really necessary.

And getting rid of the post requirement would keep people from posting just to meet AC and then having a flood at the end of the month when people go "oh crap, I forgot to post something."

That makes sense. Your input is super appreciated! :3

I like the either/or idea. I'm someone that struggles to think of things to do every month and a lot of the time my threads seem to either die or I can just make it by adding two threads, having the ability to chose on entry or comment count is good.

As for hiatus, two weeks seems like a good idea.

Now, if we were to switch the AC to an either/or system, would your position on the hiatus hold? Because that would be, technically, a reduction in what is required by needing only one or the other and may make it easier for someone active for only one week to manage.

Right now, I myself am leaning towards a two weeks, but would love that extra degree of feedback. :3

Position would still hold. Most games run on a two week hiatus exemption format and it tends to work. Three weeks seems a little much. I was away for about a week? I'm still trying to get my footing right, so people who are away for two weeks might be the same in that it takes a few days to settle back in.

Obviously not if people just take the piss.

It's a reduction, but some people play characters that prefer to respond to others rather than make an entry themselves.

Awesome. Thanks of the insights, they make sense!

Either/or system, hands down. For one, sometimes you're perfectly active and talking to people/tagging logs, but can't think of a non-slice-of-life/are somehow not the one in a position to post. It also allows for some neat character-development aspects. I have a friend at another game, and she plays a character who is highly active--but has never once posted to the network, only comments on others, because he is self-effacing deliberately (stealth-agent-type).

I think it will also make the game more user-friendly. Plus it takes stress off, and allows more flexibility in cases of unexpected/emergency hiatus (she says after a reclaim, derp). I have no particular input on how many comments would be good, but 20 seems reasonable.

As for the second, no strong feelings, but I think my rule is 'anything which doesn't seriously encourage completely slacking off and relieves player stress is probably a good thing.'

I have, in the past, seen characters that are very active and make minimal posts as well, so can see where you're coming from on that front.

Thanks for the insights on both!

*coughcoughguiltyofthiscough*

This actually led to me failing ACs on Gargleblasted. In fact, every failed AC was a result of me just getting involved in a crapton of threads, but not coming up with a post for the month. Sometimes I just can't think of something :\

I'm going to go with option one, the either/or system. Because it's really hard to come up with something to post for Jason when his stuff is done mostly in the background. And I am brain dead a lot oops.

Two questions for this:
Would the four threads still have to be with another person each month?
Would this rule be implemented for Nov. or Dec.?

As for hiatus exemptions, the second question again. But I wouldn't mind two weeks. I do find that I lose all motivation to play a character after extended periods of not playing them, so yes, this would give me that kick in the butt.

Right now, we're looking at having the no-same-characters rule for the threads, yes. One of the issues with that is it potentially eliminates up to four characters for the next month. Personally, I would like to keep some semblance of it for the tagging-out and CR variety that it encourages, but it's up for discussion as well!

The changes to AC would be implemented for the November activity round (the one in-progress). Same thing for the hiatus.

We're looking at running the discussion until the end of the week and then making the call around that point.

Either/or. Requiring a post leads to people rushing half-ass posts at the end of the month, and then thread-dropping a couple comments in because they didn't really want to make that post anyway. Frustrating for all.

Question I didn't see elsewhere: Does the proposed change mean we'd have the choice between the old AC requirement of 1 post + 10 comments or 20 comments, or that it would change to be 1 post or 20 comments?

On the topic of hiatus, I'd say drop back to two weeks. The main reason to use an official hiatus rather than a "hay guise gonna be busy for the next couple days" heads-up post is to be exempt from AC, and if you have to be gone for so long for it to matter, there's no point. I suspect having a long hiatus requirement to earn exemption will mostly lead to people vanishing without warning rather than going on hiatus.

The shift would be directly to the either/or system. To facilitate this, we're looking at having making the final decision for this weekend and making an announcement. This should avoid the flood of posts at the end of the month. Do you think that we should offer a transitional AC option?

Thanks for the descriptive feedback, it's helpful. This whole discussion has been amazingly helpful! :3

I wasn't worried at all about AC last month, because I had a post and I'd been tagging pretty regularly, but when I went to fill it out I found out that I just barely scraped by - one post and exactly ten comments in threads that were started in October. It turned out that the majority of my tags were backtagging posts/logs from the month before (along with tags on my own post, which don't count for the AC requirement). I know that it's important to keep involved and keep tagging new things, but would it be possible to take backtags into account in some way, especially since it's such a backtag-friendly game and threads can and do continue for weeks on end?

Are you referring to considering the tags that happened within the AC period? For example, maybe the thread started on September 1st, but has kept going and in October alone it had 10+ comments per character. If the thread hadn't yet been used for AC in September, then maybe it could be used for October?

Yeah, that's right! Even something like "started in the second half of the previous month and kept going" would be great - I just checked and I started three threads in the last few days of September that went on well into October, only one of which I used for September AC, and I was so busy with those (along with even older threads from my intro post) that I didn't tag out as much in October and nearly got caught as a result.

I don't think that'll be a problem for me for November, but it still might be something worth keeping in mind for people who get caught in the same situation - starting things at the end of a month and doing a bunch of tags throughout the next month that they can't count towards AC.

Honestly I like the either/or system as well.

I find that I post more often when it comes more naturally than having to worry about coming up with posts. I like tagging out more and backtagging, personally >>

And this game is so very awesome about backtagging, negl. That's been a trend we've noticed more than anything else.

Agreeing with the either/or system. This game is pretty good about backtags, as well, so it'd be nice if those counted toward the next month- for example, I tag something the 29th, but keep tagging it until say the 24th, and there are an asston of comments. It'd be nice if those comments could contribute to the AC, while still keeping up the whole "don't use the same person for AC every time."

We'll keep in mind that bit about threads. It's come up a few times in this post and definitely will be a factor in the final decision.

I would really really like an either/or option. I find that I only tend to post when my characters have a specific reason/someone's requested me, or when I can't find enough posts to tag into to keep me occupied, which has not been a problem so far, so not feeling like I'm forced to make a post would be really nice.

Good point about posts. The original intent of the AC was to ensure there were plenty of threading opportunities, but with the size that the game has gotten to, there's less of a need because there seems like there would still be plenty of posts available if we switched to either/or.

I am really okay with the either/or system! That seems to be the most popular opinion. Most people have already expressed my opinion on the matter so I won't make it long, I just think it gives people some leverage and letting them choose takes off some pressure. I don't usually have any problems with posts but everyone can have a bad month and like a lot of people have already said posting just to meet AC can and has been an issue in other games I've been especially at the end of the month.

I think 20 comments in a maximum of 4 threads is a reasonable number too, it's pretty easy to get to at least 5 comments in them. Granted I'm a slow tagger so most of my threads wouldn't get to the 20 mark soon enough, but having the leverage to pick more threads solves that so /o/

About the Hiatus exemption I don't really have any suggestions. Some games let you have half the activity for a two-weeks hiatus (sooo: if we implanted the 20 comments AC let them pass with 10 that month) so that's an idea? But anyway I never liked restricting Hiatus rules too much.

These are my 2 cents!

The point you raise for hiatus is interesting and we might keep that in mind for the future. We hadn't really looked at reduced AC, but it does make sense.

Your thoughts and input are greatly appreciated!

SLIDING IN.... SUPER LATE.....

I feel like the either/or system is the best choice?? I've never really had a problem making AC myself exactly, though sometimes thinking of a necessary post for AC makes is a challenge, and they always seems to work better across the board when it's posting for posting's sake.

I know I also tag out a lot, so a combination of several threads for AC is appealing. But otherwise, keeping it as it is doesn't bother me either.

Excellent! Thank you so much for the feedback! :3

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Discussion | Activity Requirements & Hiatus Exemption

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wow late

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